A toilet, a toilet. My kingdom for a toilet...

[Insight Driver]

simple is best. I think the best composting toilets are the most environmentally friendly. The problem is the one I have heard the most about requires a second story toilet or basement as it's about 5 feet high. I read a bit about the Clivus Multrum installed in an energy-independant house in Florida. Apparently you have to periodially place wood chips or something like that in a layer on top of the raw stuff in the top chamber, then rake it flat with a rake included with the toilet. The bottom chamber is where the mature manure has to be removed from periodically. These people had three compost piles outside, one on standby, one being added to and one being used around plants and such. Takes a dedicatedd lifestyle, that's for sure.

[TCLynx]

You are right that humanure composting using a sawdust or other material toilet is not for the people who just want to flush and go. All composting systems require management of some for or other. Then again so does just about any system. Solar collection, rain wather collection, grey water systems, gardens, maintain the house, etc, etc.......

Perhaps humanure compostings isn't really appropriate for a high tech, high electrical consuming house with no space for nature. If you arn't going to grow any plants to help scrub your air or provide food, then there is no need for the compost to help sustain them. However if you are trying for a completely sealed system, I expect the compost would be very valubule.

Most comercial composting toilet systems arn't as good at composting as they are at dehydrating. The reason most people like them more is they are a little more automatic, (not completely automatic mind you).

Proper composting is not difficult but it does require a bit of space and some attention. It can be done without causing any nusance or smell.
It does take management though and with our current off the shelf society, I expect it will be a long time (if ever) before it catches on.

However, when the planet starts going to war over clean drinking water instead of oil, we may see a change.

[Insight Driver]

TClynx, I agree with you whole-heartedly.

[Minnesota]

AMEN!!!

[hitssquad]

when the planet starts going to war over clean drinking water instead of oil, we may see a change.

http://www.ifpaenergyconference.com/tra ... /white.htm

=-=
WAGNER: Henry Wagner, Johns Hopkins. I would like to ask the panel what role nuclear energy has in desalination. Fresh water availability is a major, major problem for the future.
[...]
BOWMAN: I see a golden opportunity to use nuclear power in desalinization.
[...]
nuclear energy as a means of desalinization, you’re right, we do that onboard our nuclear powered aircraft carriers and submarines today and it certainly, with the advent of new systems, reverse osmosis systems for desalinization, I think it is another thing we should be thinking about.

We talk mostly about cracking water for hydrogen today as out-of-the-box ways to use nuclear power. But I think desalinization is certainly another one.
=-=

[Minnesota]

I would like to see a safe means and location for nuclear waste storage before we build any more nuclear plants. Does anyone know if there is any tructh to the idea that it takes more energy to create and decommission a nuclear reactor than it will produce?? Thanks.

[Insight Driver]

No truth whatsoever. Same false statement as the one that says it takes more energy to create the hydrogen for a hydrogen fuel cell car than the energy of the fuel cell it uses. There will always be people who have a strong opinion on a subject and search for the answers that confirm their opinion. I would rather learn a balanced truth, the good and bad about anything so I could understand the risks and benefits.

[Minnesota]

Right on! Ever notice how many people only tell you the side of the story that fits thier position. I always look for the disadvantages because they are happy to provide the advantages.

[TCLynx]

of course once upon a time some one was pusing hydorgen fuel cars and saying you would fill up the tank with tap water and somehow in the car the hydrogen would be extracted and then used. Couldn't believe that one either.

[Insight Driver]

I don't want to get way off-topic on this board into the, "future hydrogen economy," but I will say that ethanol fuel cells may well turn into the more-practical near-term fuel cell techonolgy. Corn, though, is not the crop of choice to turn into methanol. There is a variety of grass that is much more efficient, requiring neither cultivation nor fertilization. I forget the name, offhand, but it was discussed in an energy symposium I heard about on a radio show a while ago.

Imagine the very early days of use of oil out of the ground. There were simple refining methods that are totally obsolete today that separated out the heavier stuff from the lighter stuff. Gasoline was a waste product that was simply burned off while the heavy fuel oil was being saved for lamps and steam engines.

We can't see the future. There are researchers working on alternative ways to produce hydrogen cheaply, abundantly and safely. Just like improvements in batteries that would drive alternative renewable energy technologies, we just can't see the future breakthroughs that might change everything. Consider the internet which is pervasive today. 20 years ago a major software company did not have the vision to see what impact the internet would have. That company was Microsoft. They played catchup.

[hitssquad]

Corn, though, is not the crop of choice to turn into methanol. There is a variety of grass that is much more efficient, requiring neither cultivation nor fertilization. I forget the name

http://www.google.com/search?q=switchgrass+ethanol

Biomass is a form of solar energy and consequently shares many of the same caveats of other solar technologies, all of which caveats revolve around the poor power and energy densities of solar energy. There are dozens of promising biomass candidates, and more candidates are continuously being discovered. None of them are or will be capable of addressing the inherent density flaw of solar energy.

[Minnesota]

I think solar has a very promising future.

[Insight Driver]

Can we get back on topic? Let's take the energy stuff to general chat.

[Kevin Goebel]

Right you are... let's get our minds back in the toilet, erm...

Has there been any movement (pardon the pun) towards eliminating the 3-gallon flush law in the US? The place I'm working at now has "efficient" toilets that are anything but efficient. A lot of users have to flush twice to avoid leaving stuff in the bowl for the next user to see.

I'm wondering if I should try to pick up some "gray-market" used toilets, or look for some after-market accessories (to be used only as indoor planters, NOT to be used to extend toilet tanks) or sneak across the border into Canada to score some Porcelain White. "Honest, Constable, I have no idea how that toilet wound up in the trunk of my car."

The other alternative to "being nice and flushing twice" that I can think of might be to put in a second floor and put the bathroom upstairs to give nature a one-floor drop gravity assist.

Kevin

[game_hunter]

I think it's just a matter of getting a quality toilet that works rather than one that simply meets the new legal requirements for a toilet. I don't have a lot of experience here but that is my impression.

It seems as though many manufacturers were sort of caught with their pants down on the move to low flow and had no technology in R&D to make it happen so they ended up pushing a lot of low quality products out there and damaging the image of low flow as a technology.

I guess you could say it's like how MS, because they don't really work on making Windows a quality product, have convinced the world that computers are just supposed to be that glitchy and unpredictable. That's my guess anyway after spending some time reading about the technologies in Japan, Australia and the US.