Monolithic's Oberon Four-plex, Io20's, etc, & bathrooms.

[timbau]

I hope this is the right place for these questions on the Oberon Four-plex.

I wondered what was used for the walls separating the apartments? Are they shot create? I would worry about sound, security, and fire protection between units if they were just sheet rock and studs.

Would using a 35' dome allow the units to be a little more roomy to allow a tub?

These are just posers.....

[ebauer]

timbau

A good precentage of stick built homes that are built today only use 3/8 inch drywall. The heavy 5/8 is still available and costs a little bit more. The builder saves on his side by using the 3/8 and increases his profit.

Since I have moved to Kent, Ohio a number of years ago for employment, I have lived in apartment complexes. The majority of these were built in the late 60's or 70's when 5/8 inch sheet rock was common place. The newer places built here for student housing etc uses 3/8 inch. Everyone living in one of the newer places complains about sounds and noise. I have and am now living in one of the 70's built buildings. I don't hear my neighbors at all unless they are in the common hall way and I am near my entrance door. A stud finder does not work on these walls. Maybe a real expensive high quality one would. But I have bought several and they cannot locate the stud because the sheetrock/drywall is 5/8 inch thick.
First, you are not going to have to buy drywall for exterior walls. That is a savings you transfer to buying 5/8 inch drywall for interior walls. 5/8 on one wall 5/8 on the other wall gives you and 1 and 2/8's thickness plus the air pocket in between. Believe me that 2/8 or 1/4 inch thickness does make a difference in sound. If you have a certain room that you want extra quiet, say a bedroom, you could add some sort of insulation or sound proofing inside that wall.
Also think about your closet placement during the design phase. You have you 5/8 inch drywall x2 then a 2 ft. deep closet full of clothes with doors that shut. It all counts. It is all in the planning and design.
So many of the newer stick built houses are so noisy because of that 3/8 inch drywall.

Ebauer

[ebauer]

Tim,

I am so sorry. I got off into a whole discussion about drywall and forgot that you were asking about noise between rental units of the quad plex. The 5/8 would help. But increasing the dome size just up from a 32ft. diameter to a 35ft. would not give enough room for a standard 5ft. tub for each unit in the present layout design. You would have to pay for a whole different design plan. That means more $$$ up front. I have seen one of monolithic's plans/drawings. It includes the placement of the electrical, plumbing, sewage drainage and everything. Even little changes make a big difference.

Besides the income level of a person renting a unit in the quad plex probably couldn't care less. They would most likely be so thrilled just to find a clean, safe, and reasonable priced place to live they just wouldn't mind at all.

I persoally like having a tub for long soaks. But some people just want to be able to bathe and be clean.

Ebauer

[3dO]

I don't think a tub is a big deal for most people. Our famaily of 4 has been in our current home for over 9 years and have taken less than 8 baths total in all that time. A shower is all that is needed for most people. We are planning our retirement home with showers in the bathrooms. We want a jacuzzi for those long soaks.

[pheonixheart]

Yes, a lot of people would be happy with that, but you're limiting a whole pool of people - how about a single parent with one child? You can't very well bathe a little one in a shower stall. Depending on the size of the sink you can use that for a few months but not beyond then. You can put a little portable crib in the same room and live in the same space but if you can't clean your little one it's not a good thing.

I know I'm just coming from a family perspective but I was a single parent for a long long time, and some things are just a must with a kiddo, and single parents are some of the most in-need folks out there!

[3dO]

We may be unusual, but my wife and I had no trouble giving our children showers when they were babies.

[Zelma]

We rented a place without a tub for almost a year and we had three little boys at the time. We just got one of those plastic tubs for storage and set it in the shower. We filled it up and ta da - bathtime.

We have a really big soaking tub in our double-wide, standard feature in the 70s I guess. The first time I used it, it took so long to fill up that the water was getting cold. So the next time I had to use really hot water to make sure it didn't do that again. Then I gave up on it. It's a great place for all the plants now, even the pond plants I brought in for the winter. I guess that's why they call it a garden tub.

Anyway, I would be interested in a handicap accesible four-plex. Anyone seen a design for one anywhere? Those would do well here since we live in a retirement community.

[Pandora]

My kids may be extremely dirty ones LOL

We tend to use the showerhead (we have it so it comes off), on the all of the time. Gets more off then a washcloth alone, and with me anything that takes less time gets bonus points. (Although bath times are fun times too)

[timbau]

Thanks for all the replies.

I was thinking of shot create walls between the units for fire and security. I've seen to many apartment complex fires because they were done on the cheap and one fire would spread to the whole unit.

Like most of you folks I prefer a shower. I was just trying to get a consensus as to the tub issue. I would find it hard to live in 200 sq ft. However, I know a lot of folks that would be a mansion. To have a safe, secure, fireproof structure beats anything they could get from an apartment complex, at least in our area.

Thanks again

[Missouri Dome Builder]

What I say in the following article is something for you to investigate and make up your mind about.. The FDA has rules, which if cancer producing chemicals are found in our food supply they will be baned. Congress passed a so called Delany amendment that allows ONE exception, chlorine was found to cause cancer, but the danger was less than the damage that would be caused if the chlorine was not added to the water supply. Some say that taking a shower exposes your lungs to a much higher dose of chlorine compareed to just taking a bath. There are many lung cancer cases in people who have never smoked. Could this account for this fact in some degree????? There are ways to remove the chlorine. I think this would be worthwhile for at least your drinking water. MOST of the world outside the US has baned the poison fluorine from being added to the drinking water. Sales of bottled water continue to increase. I am not sure this is a solution, but I know it is expensive. So many decisions, but where can one find the truth??:shock:

[Pandora]

Wow chlorine causes cancer?

[timbau]

What doesn't cause cancer

It would be a short list .....

[Zelma]

Code usually requires a firewall between units, at least here it's required. There's different walls that would meet the criteria of "firewall", usually just an upgrade of the type of drywall used and some insulation. I wouldn't use shotcrete walls in the interior of the Oberon 4-plex. It can be done with shotcrete, it's just more difficult and expensive. It's easier (and more economical) to use the hollows in the interior walls to run pipes and wiring. Concerning noise, the reason drywall wouldn't block it as well as shotcrete is vibration. Thicker drywall doesn't vibrate as easily. Maybe some extra blocking (horizontal 2x4s) would help. Maybe a few extra screws while hanging the drywall?

[hitssquad]

Concerning noise, the reason drywall wouldn't block it as well as shotcrete is vibration. Thicker drywall doesn't vibrate as easily.

Yes.
http://www.greengluecompany.com/fivePri ... oofing.php

The first principle of sound isolation is mass. Mass impedes the transmission of sound in a simple way - it’s harder for the sound to shake a very heavy thing than a very light thing, no different than saying it’s harder to push a shopping cart full of lead bricks than an empty cart. However, to make large changes in performance you have to make very large changes in mass. In theory doubling the mass of a panel without an air cavity will improve things by 6dB. Typically, on the common single wood stud wall, doubling the number of drywall layers yields 4-5dB of improvement.

Maybe some extra blocking (horizontal 2x4s) would help.

No.

Maybe a few extra screws while hanging the drywall?

No.

Here is what helps (from the above-link):

0. Seal quality (caulking all cracks for an air-tight seal)

1. Mass (drywall - the thicker, and the more layers, the better)
2. Mechanical de-coupling, or mechanical isolation (sound clips, resilient channel, staggered studs, double stud walls)
3. Absorption (fiberglass in a wall cavity)
4. Resonance (a. damping: with viscoelastics such as Green Glue; b. frequency-lowering: mass, de-coupling -- especially a thicker wall-cavity -- and fiberglass)
5. Conduction (flanking noise – noise traveling from one room to another by wall-studs attaching to structure)

[pheonixheart]

Would more of the foam insulation work as well? I'm not terribly familiar with it, but I know a lot of even stick builts like to use foam insulation. I don't know how expensive it would be, but I know there's some really environmentally friendly soy-based foams out there nowadays.

I am sure it would be good for the individual climate control factors - you wouldn't have to worry nearly as much about your a/c seeping in and cooling your neighbor or having to pay half of the bill for their cooling lol. I figure that's gotta be helpful, yes? ?

Also, isn't the foam itself fire-resistant? I know it'll burn if it's hot enough but it doesn't stay burning once the heat source is removed, from what I have read... Would that be a viable solution? I am curious because that's something that, budget permitting, I would prefer to do when I build my own dome home someday...