free electricity

[GreginAlaska]

I don't think Dads was ever allowed to run longer than a couple of days because he would get tired of lubricating a couple of gears in it. The magnets did eventually lose their magnetism and he had to have another set made. I think the ones I have now are dead too but I do have the molds. I'm not sure if he kept track of how many days it ran total, but it was off and on over a matter of 30 years or so.

I have read that a number of the machines that actually turn all lose their magnetism eventually. I do think the trick is to harness the force that is stored in the magnet.

Oh ya, I never claimed a machine turned by the force stored in a magnet is perpetual motion. What I said was perpetual motion is the norm in our universe. There's a difference.

[Insight Driver]

Do you know why certain magnets are called permanent magnets? You don't draw the magnetism out of them. The machine did not slow down because the magnetism drained out. There is a property of magnetic materials called coerciveity. It is the property that determines how hard it is to switch the magnetic field in the material. Another way of thinking of it is the property that determines how hard it is to demagnetize a material. Learn more about magnetsim in general here: http://www.sciencetech.technomuses.ca/e ... agnets.cfm

And here you can learrn a bit about coerciveity: http://www.magnetsource.com/Solutions_P ... erial.html

There is no perpetual motion in the universe, either, it just slows down at a scale far greater than most humans can comprehend.

And no, all magnets do not eventually lose their, "force." if nothing changed their magnetic structure (heat does it for almost all permanent magnets, but that is around the point the metal turns red before it changes the magnetism) they remain magnetic. There are many permanent magnet motors that still work fine many decades later. Magnetism doesn't ,"drain out." There are magnets that are hundreds of years old that are still magnetic.

[GreginAlaska]

I have a number of books on magnetism left to me. I'm saying there may be something wrong in the scientific "facts" surrounding magnetism. I don't think reading someone who is parroting a mistaken theory is going to help. How many scientific "facts" have been proven wrong? Is it not human nature to go along with what an "authority figure" tells you? That's why I asked you if you lived in 1100 ad, would you believe the earth is flat or round? You didn't bother to answer. I wonder how many people told the Wright brothers they couldn't fly? Or told Thomas Edison he couldn't make a light bulb or a telephone?

Ever heard of Nikoli? Tesla? The guy who came up with AC current for one thing? He told JP Morgan (I think it was JP, don't quote me) that he could produce energy at no cost. This was his downfall because big financiers are all about making money, not doing mankind a service. Do you think Tesla was just spouting off?

Are you one of the people that believe in the "big bang"? If this is true, then right now we are living in the expanding point of the explosion, right? Doesn't the theory say at some point the universe will stop expanding and then fall back in on itself and do it all over again? That's not perpetual motion? How can you watch the Sun and Moon revolve around the sky day in and day out and not believe this is perpetual? It certainly is from a human viewpoint.

I think you misunderstood me, there have been a number of machines (you call them toys, maybe they are) that turn solely on the force inside a magnet. Everyone I read about finally lost the magnetism in the magnets for whatever reason. Even the ones Howard Johnson built and got a patent on. You can also goof up a magnet by taking a hammer to it, I'm not sure if that's true for all magnets.

[Insight Driver]

Did you read up on coersivity yet? Did you read up on dipoles? Of course a magnet can be de-magnetized by sufficient temperature, called it's curie point. Audio speakers depend on magnets and the magnets in very old speakers are as strong as they were from the day they were first produced. Those books you got, who are the authors?

Of course I've heard of Nikola Tesla and have read his biography. So what? He is a pioneer. Do think we, today, who have a body of science built on those early theories have missed something? I doubt it seriously.

The planets, by the way, and the moons around them are gradually spiraling into a collision someday. Obviously, not perpertual motion.

The very computer you are using to post on this board depends on the science of magnetism used in parts of it.

You mentioned something about molds for magnets. Were the magnets used in these machines made in these molds. We there commericially made magnets in the machines?

One final comment I would make; having books does in no way ensure that you understand basic physics of magnetism. How do you know for sure what you read as, "errors," expounded in those books are true or not? Scientific experiments can be made, and have been made. The sum of knowledge we know builds upon experimental knowledge. Of course theories have been proven false, and yes, it happens all the time. What particular aspect of magnetic theory do these books of your say are wrong?

[GreginAlaska]

Scientific theory says a machine can't turn on the power of magnetism alone, I've seen one do it. That tells me the theory is wrong.

[Insight Driver]

You have not seen it. As you posted, it required a motion to start it, didn't it. And once started if you left it alone, it would come to a stop eventually. Clearly you do not understand. A simple wheel, when spun, will continue to spin. Put a few magnets on a wheel, put another magnet near it, get it into the right position and it will turn for a while, but it will eventually stop, not because the magnets became weak, but because it is not a perpetual machine. Learn some physics, man!

[GreginAlaska]

Maybe you should learn to read. It did NOT require any motion other than moving a lever to bring the two cylinders with magnets on them into close proximity. This lever doesn't spin either one, it just gets them close together and they start to spin on their own.

[Insight Driver]

I did read it. The motion has to be initiated by moving the disc closer with the lever. And still, once in motion it will run and eventually stop if it is left alone.

[Insight Driver]

Scientific theory says a machine can't turn on the power of magnetism alone, I've seen one do it. That tells me the theory is wrong.

Where is that theory published? I cannot find any references to it.

[GreginAlaska]

Isn't this what you have been argueing all along?

[Insight Driver]

It's a typical scam. Point out some examples of theories that were proven wrong (happens all the time as scientific evidence advances) to sew some doubt. Show a very simple machine made with magnets (since magnetic force is not understood by most folks so it is just so much magic to them). Show motion. Show some smoke and mirrors. Explain that it's just around the corner and you can get in on the bottom line before it makes the conventional power companies obsolete. Pay only a small amount to get the information that will get you signed up. Hmmmm.

[GreginAlaska]

Ya, and even I said that the hummingbird/sundance generator was probably a scam. Did you not read that? As I stated, I have seen one turn from the power of the magnets alone. It would turn for a long time. (as long as you define long time as a couple of days) It wasn't coasting, it had enough friction where it would stop in a couple of minutes if you pulled the one cylinder away from the other. Would it produce much torque? No, I could stop it with my hands when I was a teenager. Can it be made to produce enough torque? I don't know, but I'm not so closed minded that I would rule it out.

[GreginAlaska]

I edited those posts to take out where I had quoted Insight because somebody, who will remain nameless, didn't like it. (and no it wasn't insight )

[hitssquad]

As I stated, I have seen one turn from the power of the magnets alone.

I would expect to be able to purchase such a device at a store like this one:
http://shopping.search.discovery.com/Di ... t=magnetic

http://shopping.discovery.com/category- ... -1107.html

To me, that's the mystery, Greg. Why isn't the Discovery Store (which has been around for a long time -- back in the 1980's it was called The Nature Company and sold the same types of non-electronic novelty physics gadgets) marketing this device as a nature curiosity?

http://shopping.discovery.com/stores/se ... ogId=10000



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[GreginAlaska]

I don't know, you would have to ask them.

A guy named Howard Johnson did get a patent on one years ago.